Extraordinary Claims

[#59]

The following is lifted from a thread started on another website and I found it both interesting as well as ironic:

Post subject: Re: Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:07 am  
 
 
Forum Administrator/MABRC Executive Director
 
 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 4196

I truly believe in this day and age, that with all the video and photo editing software, and 3d modeling software, that even if the subject is clearly in the open and has clear detail, there is always going to be the assumption that software was used to create it. It will simply take a body to solve the mystery once and for all.

Case in point, Jeffrey Gonzalez and the Sanger Paranormal Society have made extraordinary claims, that in my opinion means the evidence will have to be extraordinary to back up the claims they are making that this rivals the PGF. The Georgia Boys made extraordinary claims and couldn't back them up. Biscardi has made extraordinary claims. Many others have made extraordinary claims, but failed to produce adequate evidence to back it up.

Another case in point, Bullet Maker had all these stories in his mind to tell, yet they would change in details with each retelling. We tried to get him to put it all in report form, and begin taking reports instead of just listening to the stories. Now he has these extraordinary claims, that can't be backed up with even ordinary evidence, because it's only just stories.

If someone claims they seen a bigfoot standing in the woods, that is not an extraordinary claim, I consider that ordinary, and does not require extraordinary evidence. But if they saw Bigfoot doing cartwheels in a field, then there should be tracks and handprints to back it up as extraordinary evidence.

The interesting part is the author believes all audio & video evidence is basically moot primarily because today's technology makes manipulation and/or fraud an easily accomplished task.

He also attempts to recharacterize BM's stories (as formal scientific research) even though there are multiple cases of ancillary photographic evidence to illustrate activity on BM's holdings.

The irony in his position is the fact he has published accounts of multiple BF's (8-4) "probing the camp's perimeter" (on M&M BM's land) but he has never furnished any tracks, handprints, hair or any other form of forensic evidence to back up his extraordinary claims which, to a reasonable person would make his published reports...just...stories. *

Are all of his publications just stories?  Is there any forensic evidence he can present to validate any of them?

BTW, am not making these comments as any form of a personal attack rather, just reporting what he said, nothing more, nothing less.  It simply serves to illustrate that apparently some people are quick to point a finger at others without first stopping to consider their own deficiencies in that same area.  Therefore, what level of credibility should a reasonable person assign to any comments published by such an individual?

Food for thought.

* http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/the-mid-america-bigfoot-research-center-a-really-serious-outfit/


_{ETA: spelling}

[Bullet Maker]

The Executive Director, of the mabrc, said:....We tried to get him to put it all in report form, and begin taking reports instead of just listening to the stories.
   My response to that is...Heck fellars, I made a CD.....remember?....not only that, but I have listed several of the stories on here and on the X, Stan Courtney site.
   And last but not least, as  #59 has pointed out, he and I have at least 4 pictures of the creature, plus, many bigfoot cast, so what else does a person have to have?
   I could present a warm body, and that would prove it,  but I live here, and I don't want too harvest a creature that lives in my back yard, and then I....come up missing, like forever, no thanks, I`ll just stick to trying to get more good pictures.  

[#59]

The latest comment from the ED is about BM refusing to give out Jeff's contact info so they could "interview" him regarding his "werewolf BF" encounter near #3 stand.  What the ED left out of the comments is that Jeff has requested there be no interviews (BM has always communicated this fact to everyone when recounting the event) as he does not wish to talk about the experience, ever again.  It would certainly be a much nicer BF community if he/they would refrain from making such comments, especially with the misinformation/disinformation that always seems so indemic within them.

[#59]

As the ED of the other site insists upon running a debate in abstentia (he is a registered member here) and in the interest of making sure the accurate facts are presented, the following post (from his site):

 
Darkwing   
Post subject: Re: Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:53 pm   
 
Forum Administrator/MABRC Executive Director
 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 4203
Images: 2878

  Let me explain a little bit more here for the enlightenment of those who have never been to Bullet Maker's place. During the entire time that the MABRC conducted research there, hunters would come and go, and it seemed that whenever one of them purportedly had a sighting, they would run up to Bullet Maker, tell their story to him and then claim they never wanted to talk about it again. When asked if someone could talk to them, Bullet would always respond that either he didn't know how to contact them anymore or that they refused to talk about it ever again. So now all we have is Bullet's word that the hunter told him this story or that one. The hunter who saw the werewolf, could never be independently interviewed to corroborate what Bullet was claiming. Now you have to factor in that Bullet has laid claim to hoaxing events at his property. Can he be hoaxing with the stories too? He has nothing to back them up, and expects everyone to believe him. His claims may not be extraordinary, but they are claims, and do require some evidence to support them. According to some on another message board, Bullet should be respected and believed on everything he says. It's up to the individual to decide that on their own. You can search the Internet for the radio shows that Bullet has been on and listen to how many different renditions there is of the same stories that he has told over and over again.
 
As far as I know, Jeff is the only hunter that asked not to be interviewed post-encounter as I have interviewed several (DJ, Marty, Todd, et.al.) and they would have probably allowed others to do so as well. 

As DO personally knows DJ, why not?

Why haven't they interviewed me?

Wonder if I could interview DW, etc. about the 8-4 BF that were allegedly probing the perimeter of their camp that night down in the hidden beanfield.

Darren, you appear to be attempting to backfill the holes in your own "research" by throwing dirt at BM however, that won't fly as the accusations you fling at him with abandon are without basis or merit.

You might want to get your own "research house" in order before attempting to criticize others.
 

[Bullet Maker]

Darren made this claim about me:...(.The hunter who saw the werewolf, could never be independently interviewed to corroborate what Bullet was claiming.)...to answer this question....This happened years before, I even heard of the mabrc, or Darren Lee. It was not there buisness to contact any of my clients. PERIOD. When a client tells me of an encounter that he had, it is up to him if he wants anybody to interview him about the incendent. Most do not want to be bothered, and a few dont care.

As #59 said earlier, there are a few that the mabrc knew about but for whatever reason, didnt interview, them. But as far as turning any of my clients out to be interviewed by the mabrc, so that the mabrc, can get another story to post on there site, it ain`t going to happen.

Me and #59 have a good relation with our hunters, and were not about to give up there stories to the mabrc to pimp the stories for whatever they can get.


By the way, I tried to register on the mabrc, to answer there questions about me, (Since they won`t come on here), but it seems they don`t want me on there to answer the charges against me. So I guess they will rave on. Kinda of sad that they keep bringing me up. Maybe they should just go out and try to find some bigfoot , without our help, that is. 

[Bullet Maker]

Ya know I got to thinking about it,...it`s dangerous when I think....but this mabrc, keeps putting me down, for what they said was, (that I didn`t give them any of my witness, so they could interview them.) now why on earth would I do that?  Give them any of my findings that is...Seem`s to me that maybe they, should be out there beating the woods, for their own self.  

[Bullet Maker]

Then there is this one from Ed Smith...Oh you don`t know who Ed Smith is ? will don`t worry, nobody else does either. But he is suppose to be the mabrc head  bread winner when he (Ed Smith) finally shares all his bigfoot work...
Heres what he had to say about me:

Ed Smith   Post subject: Re: Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:15 am  
 
 

Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:00 am
Posts: 41  Darkwing wrote:
You can search the Internet for the radio shows that Bullet has been on and listen to how many different renditions there is of the same stories that he has told over and over again.


Agreed, Even the ones HE admits to HOAXING !!!

_________________
Ed Smith


__________________________________________
Curiosity is their Achilles Heel and We must learn to seduce them with it.

 
 
Did you catch that...(Even the ones He admits to Haoxing)...well, mr Ed Smith, where is your proof, or where is anything that you can produce. seems to me that you are the Hoaxer, in that you lay claim to all the bigfoots that you have recorded, but yet there is no proof...I would then, Sir,call that, HOAXING.

Come on Ed come clean...

[#59]

I would ask any/all of the MABRC membership this one particular question:

How many of you have personally (FTF) met Ed Smith?

Now...who is hoaxing whom?

IMO, the reason for the recent spate of attacks from the MABRC principals can be distilled down to this...they know the incidents of UHS seen by multiple eye witnesses as well as the current database of photographic evidence serves to illustrate the real deal is walking around these parts.  They also know their own bungling (aka: "expeditions") failed to produce evidence to substantiate their own wild claims of encounters made upon their part while on M&M BM's land.  Finally, they also know they "screwed the pooch" with the Ed Smith Infrasound fiasco and lost access to what is light years ahead of any of their other "research areas".

All they are left with is the option of slinging mud in the hope of deflecting attention from the raft of very pertinent questions (Wall of Fame fund-raising scam, 4-8 BF probing the camp perimeter, Ed Smith Infrasound Experiment fiasco, etc.) that have been asked and to which their only reply has been deafening silence.

[#59]

Under the heading of apparent Bovine Caca:

There is a dude posting (on another site) that he is a Court Certified Toxicology Expert yet when you do a search under Kornegay on this site*, nothing comes up.

Is this another case of extraordinary claims that lack a basis in fact?

http://expertpages.com/search/search_pick.php