Habituator forum idea?

[#59]

I have visited w/Bill about this idea and he's checking with the IT people to see if it can be set up as follows;

Several of us are aware that some people engaged in various stages of "habituation" or other forms of co-existence with BF/SF have expressed an interest in having a place where they could exchange ideas, information and experiences.  We're also aware of instances where some of these people have come forward and reached out for assistance/advice/counsel only to be savaged by those with other agendas or worse have their locations publicly compromised.

This program would entail a special forum (possibly even a backside one) that has a separate protocol for entry therein with the basic gist this would be a place where habituators/cohabitators could come to exchange ideas and experiences without the risk of any pro-kill advocates gaining access for any of their purposes.

Initially, it would be offered (as a resource) to a few of these people I have personal knowledge of and with any subsequent admissions based upon applicants being vetted and with a 100% agreement of admission by the (then) current participants/members.  NDA's would be employed to make every effort in maintaining the confidentiality of each and every member/participants information.

Anyway, as a rough draft of this idea/notion...does anyone have any input?

Feel free to PM me if you like to keep things confidential...thanx.

[#59]

It may come to pass that I will someday have the opportunity to explain/discuss my side (as an actual participant) in the now infamous "Louisiana Hunt" via a medium other than a website.

Until then, suffice to say that with commencing in any endeavour some people grow and evolve in their thought process and mindset on the effort.

Others, seem mired in repeating the first year over, and over, and over much akin to being in a perpetual "rut" as like one fella once described to me as being a "grave with both ends kicked out of it".

[Ray Ford]

Telahnay's g'son a Pit Bull?  My old dog Ditch took offense when he read that.  Just kidding: Ditch can't read.  (My sister named Ditch "Ditch" after we rescued him from a roadside ditch when he was a starved-to-death youngster--a puppy.  He was trying to eat a dead 'possum when we found him, and that tells you how hungry he was.  He was almost as hungry for something to eat as I am for a cool and sane post about bigfeet or bigfeetin'.  This bickering tires me out.)  I did counsel T's.g. this morning on behaving like a Pit Bull: a significant number of well-bred Pit Bull Terriers will ignore a cur or a dog of a lesser breed that might be yapping at them.  They wait for another Bulldog to show up before getting ready to fight.  And then, since I'm a retired preacher, there is that business about turning the other cheek and/or about a soft answer turning away wrath.

Speaking of preachers, and since the question of my veracity was raised on another thread, more preachers get in trouble for telling the truth than for lying.  It is amazing how many churches hire a pastor to tell them the truth and then fire him when he does.  Truth is an interesting thing...

I once preached a sermon which said, If all Christians would practice an absolute adherence to the truth in all circumstances, that adherence would insure that their behavior was always appropriate and acceptable.  (I believe that every really good sermon can be reduced to one fairly concise sentence.)  I went on to explain that, if a person had to always tell the truth about what they had done and not done, they would engage in far less inappropriate and unacceptable behavior and engage in far more appropriate and acceptable behavior.  I added that, since Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, any departure from truth is a departure from Christ!

I love it when someone gives me an opening to preach a little!

BTW, I never said that T's.g. had a picture of any bigfoot on his desk.   

[Ray Ford]

If I was habituating a bigfoot on my property, I don't think it would be wise to post any information on a message board/forum, even if it was in a secured thread. 

Py,

I've shortened the above quote--I hope that you don't mind--to the one sentence.  I did so because this one sentence, I feel, speaks to the real issue.  The real issue is not Bulletmaker or Telahnay's g'son and their opinions of each other.  The real issue is not this "message board."  I'm not the real issue.  The real issue is a secure site for habituators/co-habitators to exchange information without....

Right at the point of that "without," I start thinking.  The premise of the habituators/co-haitators, if I understand it, is that (1) there are big hairy guys and gals out there and (2) they should not be hunted and killed but allowed to live their lives without harrassment and (3) we more regular humanoids ought to develop modes of interaction with them.  (I think that, in another place, I likened habituation to what my sister has done with a squirrel.  The squirrel will come to the porch of her condo and take pecans and/or other nuts out of her hand.  I would have called this "taming.")  This is contrary to the thinking of other 'footers who are seeking an opportunity to bag one of the big hairy critters--to shoot one, secure it to a front fender of their vehicle, drive down the highway into town, stop at the newspaper office and get a picture and story done, then sell it for $1,000,000--or more.  (I'll call these people by the name "baggers.")  The habituators don't like to post about their activities because they fear the baggers.
If, they think, it becomes known that a family of bigfeet is living on their back forty, the baggers will show up and shoot same.  I suspect that they are right, and I pretty much agree with what you said about letting information on any habituating activity leak out--out to baggers.

There are people out there looking to take a bigfoot that don't fall into the category that I just described.  They have an honest desire to prove, with a body, the existence of bigfeet.  I can understand their position, but I, personally, would not kill an individual of a rare and/or endangered species just to prove that the species exists.  But, like I said, I understand their position.

If I knew where a bigfoot, or a group of bigfeet, were hanging, the last thing that I would do is let that information out.  BUT, I would be engaged in recording their locations and activities, gathering biological samples whenever possible, taking pictures and making sound recordings at every opportunity.  I might be, acting with extreme caution, involving trustworthy zoologists and even wildlife experts in the matter.  I would want to gather substantial and irrefutable evidence before involving anyone!  I might even attempt to have the critters declared a protected species BEFORE it became generally known that the big hairy guys and gals were kickin' it in my locale.

Now here is the problem that a lot of us have:  We have a little bit of trouble taking habituators/co-habitators seriously BECAUSE we feel that, if such activity were actually occurring, some of the recordings, pictures, and biological samples would have surfaced by now.  I think that I'm saying this:  Prove to me that you are actually interacting with a bigfoot, or a group of bigfeet, and I'll join you and work mightily to develop a means of sharing information.

Habituators/co-habitators also avoid positng because they think that they will be harrassed.  Here is my bit of harrassment:  I have been told that one woman is claiming to have had a sexual encounter with a bigfoot--or several.  I don't know if what she is talking about is casual flirtation or serious banging.  But I have just one question:  Was it as good for her as it was for him?

One thing for sure, Py, I'm not telling anyone about the big hairy guys or gals that I hang out with.  

[#59]

If I was habituating a bigfoot on my property, I don't think it would be wise to post any information on a message board/forum, even if it was in a secured thread. 

Py,

I've shortened the above quote--I hope that you don't mind--to the one sentence.  I did so because this one sentence, I feel, speaks to the real issue.  The real issue is not Bulletmaker or Telahnay's g'son and their opinions of each other.  The real issue is not this "message board."  I'm not the real issue.  The real issue is a secure site for habituators/co-habitators to exchange information without....

Right at the point of that "without," I start thinking.  The premise of the habituators/co-haitatores, if I understand it, is that (1) there are big hairy guys and gals out there and (2) they should not be hunted and killed but allowed to live their lives without harrassment and (3) we more regular humanoids ought to develop modes of interaction with them.  (I think that, in another place, I likened habituation to what my sister has done with a squirrell.  The squirrel will come to the porch of her condo and take pecans and/or other nuts out of her hand.  I would have called this "taming.")  This is contrary to the thinking of other 'footers who are seeking an opportunity to bag one of the big hairy critters--to shoot one, secure it to a front fender of their vehicle, drive down the highway into town, stop at the newspaper office and get a picture and story done, then sell it for $1,000,000--or more.  (I'll call these people by the name "baggers.")  The habituators don't like to post about their activities because they fear the baggers.
If, they think, it becomes known that a family of bigfeet are living on their back forty, the baggers will show up and shoot same.
I suspect that they are right, and I pretty much agree with what Py said about letting information on any habituating activity leak out--out to baggers.

If I knew where a bigfoot, or a group of bigfeet, were hanging out, the last thing that I would do is let that information out.  BUT, I would be engaged in recording their locations and activities, gathering biological samples whenever possible, taking pictures and making sould recordings at every opportunity.  I might be, acting with extreme caution, involving trustworthy zoologists and even wildlife experts in the matter.  I would want to gather substantial and irrefutable evidence before involving anyone!  I might even attempt to have the critters declared a protected species BEFORE it became generally known that the big hairy guys and gals were kickin' it in my locale.

Ray...this is exactly the reasoning for the feasibility of such a forum.  It may well facilitate the acceleration of actually validating (to mainstream society) the existence of these folk with the resulting protection status sought by many in this effort.  With the rumor there are organized "hunts" (@~$30K a pop) involving helicopters, FLIR/TI technology and hi-powered weaponry, time may well be of the essence.  As I've stated previously, get your documentation "in a row" before involving any of mainstream science's professionals in the process as you'll only get one chance to get it right and avoid a SNAFU and possibly forever lose the momentum.

[Bill]

I saw Matt today but we were so busy finishing up getting him moved I forgot to ask about the possibility of setting up a private forum here visible only to members of that sub forum of this site. Still I'm about 99.44% sure we can. I say that because we already in effect do that at GBO with the Moderators Forum and there is even one that no one but Matt and I can view there. So I'm sure the ability to do it exists it will just take Matt setting the permissions of that new forum or even section if folks doing this feel a need for more than one forum.

I guess my single biggest concern is the "how to" of this matter. I know no one doing it at this time "habituating" being the "it" in this case.

My concern here is that to keep it truly private so the wrong kinda folks don't get access there needs to be a vetting process prior to entry. To properly accomplish that mission "someone" has to know a fair bit about each proposed candidate for admittance to make sure that the secrets of those already in are not compromised. That vetting process would in reality it seems to me require info they might not feel free handing out to anyone including whoever is vetting them. I guess I'd not blame them either.

I honestly am not sure how to work around this. John has volunteered to do the vetting but he might or might not pass muster with all who might want to take part himself. Dunno and that's the honest truth of the matter.

At least with e-mails being swapped they don't have to share more than an e-mail address. How they find each other tho I have no clue. I'd really like some guidance from someone currently involved in habituating on how they would propose we proceed here if at all with this idea.

That could be done via PM thru this site if a member or via e-mail to me at graybeard at go2gbo.com. Ya know how to make that an e-mail address if you know how to do e-mail. Putting e-mail addresses on open forum on ANY forum including this one opens you to spambots so it's really best not to put a valid e-mail address on open forum anywhere.

I have no problem with giving folks involved in habituating a private venue and implementing whatever safe guards the folks involved feel are appropriate. I just don't know how to decide what those measures are. If it's something folks involved desire let me know via PM or e-mail and we'll move in that direction.

[#59]

Bill,

I hope that everyone didn't get the idea I wanted control over this venture as the "mission" is far more important than any individual. 

With all the bile and venom that has been spewed against me by several of the pro-kill goombahs I have no doubt that some "habituators" are leery of dealing with me.

Perhaps, it is a good idea for anyone so interested to contact you and leave me totally out of the loop.  After all with being married for ~18 years, I have no ego. 

I also have thick skin and as 'Ol Bub said..."It's all about the big folks."

[ole bub]

Bigfoot study folks...

The forum format has been tried...too many times...ya'll are beating a dead horse.

Consider the Internet talk show format..."Living with Bigfoot"....John, Pat and I accomplished more in 50 minutes on the air a month ago than all our combined forum posts.  John would make a good host, let the audience decide whom they trust and why.

The gun toting thugs and killer wannabes telling their tall tales around an internet "campfire"....it's about time the big folks got equal time on the airwaves of cyberspace....enough said.

live and let live...

ole bub and the dawgs

[todtkaufman]

Not to get attacked here, I am making a personal comment from experience.

I contacted Ole Bub after the radio show about habituation and told him briefly about my family and their experience with bigfeet on our land.  His advice was to check out all the groups and individuals that I could, and get a better idea of who was who.

Going to all the other forums was really a eye opener, even talking to a lot of the people that are considered in the upper crust of the bigfoot community.  I also read a lot.  There is a trail of posts across all the forums that talk about how someone shot a bigfoot in Luisiana and bragged about it for years.  This same person still goes hunting all the time, which if they were no-kill, wouldn't be killing other God's creatures.  Just my honest opinion here.

When I told Ole Bub that my family didn't want this person to know our location, I was bitterly attacked by that person for it.  That alone makes me suspect anything said by this person.

The only bad-mouthing that was done, came from Ole Bub and Telehnay's G'son about all these other groups and people, but the people they bad-mouthed would not bad-mouth them back.  The group I finally chose to go with, has been professional all the way.  Even when I asked about the past association with Ole Bub, they never did say anything bad about him. 

If this was really all about the big folks, like Ole Bub says, they would stop attacking people, bad-mouthing and start finding a way to work with others.  This forum hasn't grown in the month I've been around at all, folks like me come on here and all they see is rhetoric, instead of any real research being discussed, and they get disheartened and leave. 

People come to look for research, information that they can use in their own research and experiences.  I have seen so many posts here always going back to thinly-veiled attacks on people, in order to get by Bill's standing order to not do it. 

Comparing this forum with other Bigfoot forums, there is so much lacking here that it will never become a place for researchers to come to.

I have some suggestions that would make this site better.

1. Get rid of the Alpha Male moniker on Telehnay's title.  That puts people off right there, and it really sounds like it's an ego trip or worse yet, childish.
2. Stop with the no-kill rhetoric.  This forum was a part of a hunting and gun forum before, so that alone kills that as being the backbone of this site.  No one with any sense will believe that this is a no-kill site.
3. Stop attacking other people and groups because their research does not go along with your way of thinking.  I've met some pro-kill folks who have set high standards of research, and their line of thinking may be correct for them.
4. Delete 2/3 of the threads here, as most are thinly-veiled insults and attacks on people.  The researchers in the community are not stupid, they know of the history behind some of the folks here and just reading some of the posts only confirms that.
5. Invite researchers to come in.  Not just no-kill, but pro-kill too.  Let them come and talk research without having to listen to the same thing over and over.  I've been told that there is research being done here, but I haven't found it yet. 
6. Stop trying to show how other researchers are such horrible people, just to try and show yourself to be better than them.  This is supposed to be about bigfoot research, not CSI or Law and Order.

I've said my peace, and I would like to see this place grow into what it should turn into.  But for that to happen, people here need to change their ways and make it a place for people to want to come.

If it's truly about the big folks, then none of this petty fighting should be going on.  We should all be working together to protect them, regardless of what you believe.

Joseph.

[#59]

Not to get attacked here, I am making a personal comment from experience.

No attack...just adding a bit of context that may be of help.

I contacted Ole Bub after the radio show about habituation and told him briefly about my family and their experience with bigfeet on our land.  His advice was to check out all the groups and individuals that I could, and get a better idea of who was who.

Going to all the other forums was really a eye opener, even talking to a lot of the people that are considered in the upper crust of the bigfoot community.  I also read a lot.  There is a trail of posts across all the forums that talk about how someone shot a bigfoot in Luisiana and bragged about it for years.  This same person still goes hunting all the time, which if they were no-kill, wouldn't be killing other God's creatures.  Just my honest opinion here.

The only "upper crust" in the BF community IMHO would be the Meldrums, Fahrenbachs, Higgins of the academic arena...most everyone else is down in the mix.   Just because I hunt (game) shouldn't color your judgement no more than your military service makes you a bloodthirsty killer to any other reasonable person.

When I told Ole Bub that my family didn't want this person to know our location, I was bitterly attacked by that person for it.  That alone makes me suspect anything said by this person.

If you felt straight talk was an attack...mea culpa

The only bad-mouthing that was done, came from Ole Bub and Telehnay's G'son about all these other groups and people, but the people they bad-mouthed would not bad-mouth them back.  The group I finally chose to go with, has been professional all the way.  Even when I asked about the past association with Ole Bub, they never did say anything bad about him. 

You simply haven't all the facts on that one.  Also, the fact you've chosen to associate with people that have such a litany of criminal justice & civil system baggage makes me wonder exactly why you have such an affinity for those types?

If this was really all about the big folks, like Ole Bub says, they would stop attacking people, bad-mouthing and start finding a way to work with others.  This forum hasn't grown in the month I've been around at all, folks like me come on here and all they see is rhetoric, instead of any real research being discussed, and they get disheartened and leave. 

IMHO the realm of BF community is reminiscent of Chicago in the 1920's with a gold rush thrown in to boot.  You likely won't see any serious evidence presented here (nor have I seen on many of the other sites) for the reasons cited in previous post(s).

People come to look for research, information that they can use in their own research and experiences.  I have seen so many posts here always going back to thinly-veiled attacks on people, in order to get by Bill's standing order to not do it. 

You mean like the one just below?

Comparing this forum with other Bigfoot forums, there is so much lacking here that it will never become a place for researchers to come to.

Your opinion, just like the next guy.

I have some suggestions that would make this site better.

1. Get rid of the Alpha Male moniker on Telehnay's title.  That puts people off right there, and it really sounds like it's an ego trip or worse yet, childish. Never asked for it in the first place.

2. Stop with the no-kill rhetoric.  This forum was a part of a hunting and gun forum before, so that alone kills that as being the backbone of this site.  No one with any sense will believe that this is a no-kill site. That's precisely why it was seperated from the main site.  Granted, paranoia can be problematic to overcome.

3. Stop attacking other people and groups because their research does not go along with your way of thinking.  I've met some pro-kill folks who have set high standards of research, and their line of thinking may be correct for them.
They still want to kill for the sake of "research" and while they are certainly entitled to their line of thought, it doesn't set with people of the no-kill stance...no matter how "scientific" the posturing.

4. Delete 2/3 of the threads here, as most are thinly-veiled insults and attacks on people.  The researchers in the community are not stupid, they know of the history behind some of the folks here and just reading some of the posts only confirms that.
Again, your opinion.  Mine is based upon knowing many of the people you reference and much better than you may know them.

5. Invite researchers to come in.  Not just no-kill, but pro-kill too.  Let them come and talk research without having to listen to the same thing over and over.  I've been told that there is research being done here, but I haven't found it yet. 
See paragraph #7.

6. Stop trying to show how other researchers are such horrible people, just to try and show yourself to be better than them.  This is supposed to be about bigfoot research, not CSI or Law and Order.
If pointing out factual history is bad juju (in your book) maybe we should all get rose colored glasses?  This isn't summer camp.

I've said my peace, and I would like to see this place grow into what it should turn into.  But for that to happen, people here need to change their ways and make it a place for people to want to come.

If it's truly about the big folks, then none of this petty fighting should be going on.  We should all be working together to protect them, regardless of what you believe.
Given the stance and intentions of the pro-kill crowd that statement has absolutely no basis in reality.  In summary, IMHO you appear to have a penchant for making judgements based upon a minimum of evidence and most of that totally biased to boot.  Perhaps, it's roots can be found in youth and inexperience?

Joseph.

I wish only the best for you and yours with the prayer that you do not ultimately pay the cost for the highest tuition we ever incur in life...bitter experience.
Kasi Mek-e-oo

[#59]

I've read about these habituations on another site but activity seems to stop when people show up to investigate. Hard to get evidence that way. POWDERMAN. 

You are correct in that I've read/heard of the same situations.  Also, I'm aware of three (3) separate incidents (Oklahoma, Mississippi & North Carolina) where activity was disrupted as a result of unauthorized & unwanted "investigations" by those that learned of the locations and went in (for their own purposes) totally uninvited.  That is why many people engaged in various levels of interaction will not go public as they aren't stupid about pro-killers in sheep's clothing.  Ergo, the rationale for discussing the merits of a forum such as this thread's subject matter.

[Bill]

OK I've pared this thread down a bunch and gotten rid of a lot of useless drivel that got tossed in without merit. I've also ended Doug's membership as I promised him I would if he wasn't able to stay on topic and off the personal attacks. He is no longer welcome here and never again will be on any site I have any control over.

Tod many of your points have merit but tonight I don't have time to address them properly. I'll try to make time tomorrow.

[pattymac]

Hmmmmmmmm. Anybody ever watch the movie Groundhog Day? I think it was. Every time a thread is started it ends up in the same place. Someone b*tching about John and his past. I get it already Everyone hates John. Or rather almost everyone. Now that being said lets get over John already. (Okay I feel better )
The one thing that I just read that stands up to muster is this statement.

The only "upper crust" in the BF community IMHO would be the Meldrums, Fahrenbachs, Higgens of the academic arena...most everyone else is down in the mix.   Just because I hunt (game) shouldn't color your judgment no more than your military service makes you a bloodthirsty killer to any other reasonable person.

That is a reasonable statement. I don't care how good the ole boy is if he don't have the credentials to back up his science and evidence it will not be accepted. He will be called a fake a hoax a liar as will anyone else coming forward. 
 
Now back to the idea of a sub form. I say go for it. It may or may not work.

[ole bub]

Joseph....

Assuming your claims of 25 years of habituation, peaceful interaction, and frozen soft tissue sample are accurate, it is within your power to bring the enigma of Bigfoot into the rigorous scrutiny of scientific evaluation and DNA analysis.  At your request, I provided you with a email letter of introduction to Professor Alton Higgins, including his contact information while vouching for your veracity.  The fate of your "critters" rests with your decision. 

Doug correctly points out that forty years ago, while serving in the US Air force,  I thought I could shoot a Bigfoot with impunity, we were all young and dumb once...forty years later I know better.  I have not hunted anything other than upland game since my big game hunting trips as a youth with my late father.

I have survived two near fatal heart attacks, with stage II emphysema, the epiphany of those health issues and thirty years of large dog breed rescue, have enhanced my reverence for all life. 

Working with habituators,  some of whom post here, has profoundly changed my perception of the sasquatch phenomena.  I am amazed how tolerant sasquatch is of our intolerable intrusive behavior toward them.  I am grateful to those folks for sharing the fruits of their trial and error with a fool like me.

My partners and I operate over two hundred oil and gas wells, two gas gathering systems, and three equipment yards with scarce and expensive oilfield drilling and production equipment on remote leases in six counties with dozens of miles of pipeline, compressors, and hundreds of miles of lease roads.  Oilfield equipment, and product theft is a constant problem with substantial casualty losses each year.   Yes...I carry firearms for personal protection, of our employees and our property from the criminals and thieves of the oil patch in rural Oklahoma.   I also carry first aid, survival gear, digital cameras, digital recorders and a cell phone.

Best of luck with your critters...

live and let live...

ole bub and the dawgs

 

[todtkaufman]

Being that I am a cold-blooded killer because I serve in the military (According to some here), I used to deer hunt with my dad in the Cookson Hills before I went to Iraq.  After my 1st tour there, I came home and went deer hunting and shot my 1st deer after coming home.  It tore me up, I haven't been hunting since.  I swerve around animals on the road just to avoid hitting them.  I seen too much bloodshed and destruction there that was really unnecessary.

Ole Bub sent me on a quest, to find out everything I could to make a good calculated decision on who to trust.  I did what he told me told, because it made sense.  What I discovered is that some of the people use terror on the weak-minded to get them to flock to them.  I've seen it especially used effectively here.  How many threads addressed to me have stated that I have made the wrong decision by allowing the wrong people on my family's property.  It's the same tactics the insurgents have used in Iraq.

I sat with DW at the MABRC on his back porch, and I looked him eye to eye, and before I told him about not hunting anymore, he told me the same thing about him.  He shot his first deer after coming home, and it tore him up to the point he no longer hunts, he actually swerves to avoid hitting squirells and birds on the road.  He had seen too much while he had been in the army.  That alone is what makes me trust him the most.  He also went up and set in the woods at night with nothing more than an axe handle that he used for wood knocking.  I seen this personally.

I am still going to contact Professor Higgins, I have the tissue samples and I do want to have them tested.  I've been working out of state in Lousiana and haven't had the chance to contact him.

If anyone has a habituation going on at their location, they really need to do the same thing I did.  Do your homework.  Go to all the forums, talk to a lot of people (not about the habituation but about who is who, what, when and where) and find out everything you can about people.  Look at who is doing research and discussing it, read between the lines and use your brains to decide who is the right people to go with.

I'm not saying the MABRC will be the best group to go with for everyone, the TBRC may be best for some, while the BFRO may be better for others.  Each group has a lot to offer and brings it to the table in different ways.  Just don't fall for the terror ploy, in which someone tries to scare you into submission to stay with them and not talk to anyone else.  JMHO.