Answer to Ray Ford

[darkwinglh]

SInce the Honobia Bigfoot Conference thread was locked and Ray Ford asked some questions that I can't respond to there, I have started this thread to answer them.  NOT trying to circumvent Bill's orders to drop it, just asnwering questions that were asked of me.

Ray,
The MABRC forum has the largest library of Bigfoot-Yeti-Yahren-Alma articles and information on the web right now, and it also has researchers posting their research, how it's done, what works and what doesnt. 

You asked a few questions that were good questions, but you did not wait long enough for someone to get to your questions, since there was over 10,000 topics to go through on the forum.

During the Georgia Hoax debacle, I had to move quite a few sections out of the public view to reduce the bandwidth consumption that was being used up by guests accessing the site.  BFF actually closed off their entire site to guests to keep their forum from being  cratered bandwidth wise.

Right now the MABRC forum is getting over a million hits a month, and at times you can hear the forum creak under the strain.  If I didn't move certain sections out of the public eye, it would be seizing up everytime I turn around.  There is transparency there, folks just have to register on the forum to see those forum areas so that bandwidth can be conserved.

The thread about the casts, I will look at the thread you are talking about, no they are not in a MABRC collection, they are photos that are in the MABRC Cast and Track Gallery of casts from across the nation for researchers to compare their tracks to when they cast one.

What led to you being banned over at the MABRC forums was that you started being a cheerleader over there for John, and if anyone will remember, I gave John the chance to join over there and tried to get this whole fued put to rest, yet he got combative and I had to pull the plug on my efforts.

As far as John and Steve going to Skilleyville, you forget that there are pictures of them on this forum showing them not only at Skilleyville, but standing near the marker in question.  I did not avoid the question, they answered it themselves by taking picture of themselves in the area, which if they didn't do it, why did they go there and take pictures of themselves at the spot in question?

The MABRC is working on a project concerning markers, bows, and such, in which everytime a researcher comes across something like this that could not have been made in a natural way, they go through a set of procedures and take pictures of all views, record all the data and it is then evaluated by a team to see if it matches up to what the AIBR and SRI organziations consider to be bigfoot-related.

We are also working on projects to mine data from sightings reports to get information such as most dominant hair and eye colors, height, weights, seasons of sightings, time of day, etc.

A third project called Project Foodbasket is compiling a list of all the different wild edible plants and other foodstuffs from each state or region, compared to what has been used in baiting stations to try and come up with a list of what foodstuffs is most attractive to bigfoot to eat.

We also have several 'habituation' sites that are ongoing, and we try to convince the folks involved not to try this, as you are dealing with a wild animal that could come back to bite you or your family memebrs.  (I will post a thread about this tonight)

Bottom line Ray, I had a similar gentlemen's agreement with you like I had with Bill, ride herd on someone and I would do the same, I did my part of the agreement, but you never kept up your end of it.

[Ray Ford]

...the beat goes on.

Darkwinglh/Darren,

What led to me being kicked off your forum?

You posted the accusation that John and Steve had destroyed a bigfoot marker.
You said that locals described them as an old skinny guy and an Indian in a silver gray pickup.
If I recall correctly,
     I made a reply in which I said,
     Just for the record,
          John and Steve adamantly deny that they destroyed the marker.
I felt it was unfair, to say the least, to make that kind of accusation on your forum
     when the two of them had be banned from the forum and could not respond.
I did not say that they did, or did not, destroy the marker.
If I recall correctly,
     I asked the question,
     How did the locals know that John was an Indian when he does not look that much like one?
Subsequently,
     Randy jumped in with some antagonism.
When I attempted to respond to him,
     your moderator locked the thread.
I took issue with her for doing so
     --for allowing Randy to make his posts but not allowing me to respond,
     and you banned me for talking un-nice to your moderator.
AND YOU NEVER DID RESPOND TO THE QUESTION!
AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT DONE SO!
And I ask again,
     Did you concoct the bit about the locals seeing Skinny Steve and Indian John?
I think that you did.

Of course,
     John and Steve have been to that site.
Did they remove the marker?
I doubt it,
     but I really don't know.
And you don't know.
You should apologize to them for publishing the accusation.

I don't cheerlead for John--or Steve.
I might not even agree with John at times.
I've told him several times to ignore you guys.
I've told him several times to not waste his time responding to you guys.
(And, the next time I see him,
     he will probably tell me to follow my own advice.)
I might even have problems with Steve.
I responded to your accusation
     because I saw a certain unfairness in making such an accusation on your forum against someone you had banned
     --someone that you would not allow to respond on your forum..

You received the best piece of investigation and analysis of a supposed bigfoot encounter/sighting from me that your forum, and probably any of the other forums, has received when I did my study of Doug's game cam picture, the Spencer Creek Image.  I was fair and objective in spite of assertions by several, including Bill, that the picture was a hoax.  I did not let the Doug-John fued impact my work.  BTW, I am told that that fued started when Doug went off on John when John, following to some extent Dennis' lead, declined to back Doug up in his assertion that the picture was that of a bigfoot.  I don't have personal knowledge of that. 

I think that you don't want anyone on your forum with the intellect and honesty to raise questions.

When you get through hyping your forum on Bill's forum,
     Why don't you go into your vast array of resources and answer my other question?
Are there two distinctly different types of supposed bigfoot tracks?
Does that mean, as it would, that there are two different types of bigfeet?
Or does it indicate something else?
"Supposed" is a key word in that question.

If you respond to this,
     don't don't throw a bucket of spin in my direction.
Just answer the questions!

 

[ole bub]

Darren...

Please note the time date stamp on the images of John and I at Skilleyville...we went to Skilleyville several months after you fabricated the vandalism allegation.  Encroachment of a private research area is your M. O. not mine.   I have always argued for respectful research and fairness regarding indigenous North American Aboriginal...

The windows of my truck are tinted to the maximum legal limit, observing the occupants would be virtually impossible.

Do you really want to exchange a synopsis and chronology of events?

Why you turned to the dark side of Pro-Kill is a mystery to me...we agree to disagree... please leave well enough alone.

live and let live...

ole bub and the dawgs

[darkwinglh]

Ole Bub,
What makes you think I am pro-kill?  Seriously?  I go out with nothing more than an axe handle to do wood knocks with when I go out. 

You are the one that has lost grip on reality.  You went into another researcher's area, took pictures of yourself there, and bragged about it.  Who is the one that goes into other researcher's areas?  Looks like you are the one.

I would try and post more Bigfoot related material here, but I am too busy fending off attacks from you, Ray and John.  I've noticed that trend, that anyone that comes here usually gets dogpiled.

This forum will never get anywhere as long as that continues to happen.

[Bill]

Darren if you are having issues with bandwidth you need to change servers or find a new host. There is no reason in this day and age to have bandwidth issues. We can host you as we do several other sites if you wish not that I'm trying to stir up business in that manner but if you're having bandwidth issues it's time for a change not going private.

[#59]

Darren,

You are still running sideways on Ray's questions and that bespeaks a total lack of respect and lends to the idea that transparency is a foreign notion to your method of operation just like the cockamamie excuse for taking most of your forums to the backside.  No one is dogpiling you rather, they're asking legitimate questions which you refuse to answer.

For the record (again) I had never been to Skilleyville prior to Steve taking me there months after your tirade against us.  The reason you yanked the thread down (as you've done to a covey of others) is because Steve was going to take you to task for libel and you knew the entire thread was predicated upon a lie and wouldn't pass muster when called upon to validate your assertions.  Same for the threads (area 51, et. al.) regarding breaching the privacy of people's residences.  You won't see pics of BM's, Randy's or your homes with street address and phone numbers posted here.  Take a hint and get off the piety wagon.

Also, while the air is being cleared...I never "invaded" BM's so-called research area.

I met him through WW & DG and began leasing hunting rights on his property as we had scouted/hunted/observed on the PHA lands to the west of him prior to that time and had a thorough working knowledge of the area.

Doug does not "research" any further than his back porch.

WHY?

Because, he is scared of the dark and especially the darkness of the creek bottoms.  I know it, DG knows it, WW knows it, Brian knows it, Todd knows it, Joe knows it, Roy knew it, John W. knows it...and that's only the beginning of the list.

Doug and I (as Ray stated) had our parting of the ways when he went off on DG (on the GBO forum) after DG called it (the "pic") as he saw it and I concurred with the assessment as has everyone else of that party who saw it firsthand at Doug's home.  He then went ballistic when I secured permission to use his neighbor's side (the only passable one) of the "road" for ingress/egress to the bottoms and PHA to hunt legal game.  I also now have permission to hunt on all of their land as well which is ~2.5X the acreage of Doug's.  I could care less that you guys are making fool's of yourselves acting like a bunch of tinfoil trekkies when you have your Expeditions down there.  Heck, Randy's bacon grease video alone is prima fascie evidence of that fact.

Darren, please get over yourself and keep trying to remember that I will continue to hunt there for things (legal game) that breathe and bleed instead of creating a tempest in a teapot over something that in ALL of your expeditions down there has failed to produce even one shred of legitimate scientifically acceptable evidence.



Kasi Mek-e-oo

[darkwinglh]

Darren,

You are still running sideways on Ray's questions and that bespeaks a total lack of respect and lends to the idea that transparency is a foreign notion to your method of operation just like the cockamamie excuse for taking most of your forums to the backside.  No one is dogpiling you rather, they're asking legitimate questions which you refuse to answer.

For the record (again) I had never been to Skilleyville prior to Steve taking me there months after your tirade against us.  The reason you yanked the thread down (as you've done to a covey of others) is because Steve was going to take you to task for libel and you knew the entire thread was predicated upon a lie and wouldn't pass muster when called upon to validate your assertions.  Same for the threads (area 51, et. al.) regarding breaching the privacy of people's residences.  You won't see pics of BM's, Randy's or your homes with street address and phone numbers posted here.  Take a hint and get off the piety wagon.

Also, while the air is being cleared...I never "invaded" BM's so-called research area.

I met him through WW & DG and began leasing hunting rights on his property as we had scouted/hunted/observed on the PHA lands to the west of him prior to that time and had a thorough working knowledge of the area.

Doug does not "research" any further than his back porch.

WHY?

Because, he is scared of the dark and especially the darkness of the creek bottoms.  I know it, DG knows it, WW knows it, Brian knows it, Todd knows it, Joe knows it, Roy knew it, John W. knows it...and that's only the beginning of the list.

Doug and I (as Ray stated) had our parting of the ways when he went off on DG (on the GBO forum) after DG called it (the "pic") as he saw it and I concurred with the assessment as has everyone else of that party who saw it firsthand at Doug's home.  He then went ballistic when I secured permission to use his neighbor's side (the only passable one) of the "road" for ingress/egress to the bottoms and PHA to hunt legal game.  I also now have permission to hunt on all of their land as well which is ~2.5X the acreage of Doug's.  I could care less that you guys are making fool's of yourselves acting like a bunch of tinfoil trekkies when you have your Expeditions down there.  Heck, Randy's bacon grease video alone is prima fascie evidence of that fact.

Darren, please get over yourself and keep trying to remember that I will continue to hunt there for things (legal game) that breathe and bleed instead of creating a tempest in a teapot over something that in ALL of your expeditions down there has failed to produce even one shred of legitimate scientifically acceptable evidence.



Kasi Mek-e-oo

What the heck?  You keep pulling me into this fued, and now you are threatening me, am I to worry that you are going to cause harm to my family?  I'm not formenting any troubles with Doug and his neighbors.  But I have copied this whole post, in the event that anything happens to any of my family members or property, I will make sure that Law Enforcement comes to your door first.

You crossed the line here, with the last comment.  I have nothing to do with your fued with Doug, yet you pull me into it every chance you get.

[boogum]

Let me try this again, bearing in mind this raises some questions about the MABRC. Admittedly there are good people in it who mean well, people such as LAL for example. There are others who are far more dubious and that is what I was driving at.

I would like to have Darren answer this question, as it plays into the no kill-pro kill argument. I would like to know what happened with an MABRC member named waskookum, because alledgedly this person was "befriended" by a few members pretending to no kill in order to gain access to her research area. This was done, if this accurate, under false pretense and raises a sticky whicket for this research group.

We've seen Bulletmaker's antics here, and he's a member of the inner circle? His claims if true should have produced proof by now, but Darren, what happened with Washskookum?

Ray, I apologize if it seems like I'm intruding here, but this seems like a fair question to give DW a chance to respond to.

[Ray Ford]

ray. I assume Boogums opinion was not the same as yours, good thing you didn't let him speak, like ya did ole bub. I'm disappointed in you. POWDERMAN. 

Powder,

No, your assumption is wrong.  I was just hoping against hope that this wouldn't become an extended....  I hoped to keep it between Darren and me and to keep it short.

I sure would like to have another game cam picture to investigate.
I sure would like to have another sighting from which we could learn something.
I would even like to see some new tracks--of either type.
I sure am tired of the bickering.
I ain't mad at nobody.
And I really kind of like old Bulletmaker--if he would stop giving me "safety warnings" about getting shot by his leasees.

[#59]

I do not have a feud with Doug....he is banned here...how can we therefore "feud" with each other?



That was stated in the context that cutting his neighbor's fences in the name of "BF research" is a dawg that won't hunt.  The illegal camera(s) film has been developed and it sure appears to be your mug in one of the initial frames as it was being installed on their tree.

IMHO, this post is BF research related in that illegally trespassing in the name of so-called BF research is well...illegal trespassing...and no justification for such behavior.

Remember, the camera doesn't blink.

Now, please answer Boogum's question about Jan (Washskookum) as well as the other questions previously posed as they are definitely "BF related".

Thank you.

[darkwinglh]

I do not have a feud with Doug....he is banned here...how can we therefore "feud" with each other?

You still fued with him, don't try to pull the wool over our eyes.



This was stated in the context that cutting his neighbor's fences in the name of "BF research" is a dawg that won't hunt.  The illegal camera(s) film has been developed and it sure appears to be your mug in one of the initial frames as it was being installed on their tree.

For one thing, I have no association with the fence being cut, that is between Doug and his neighbors.  To claim that I am involved is outright character assasination and you know it.  As for the cameras that were taken, they were digital, so how can the film be developed off them?  Get your facts straight.  And they weren't my cameras, and I didn't set them up, so how could my mug be on them,, another outright attempt to assasinate my character.

IMHO, this post is BF research related in that illegally trespassing in the name of so-called BF research is well...illegal trespassing...and no justification for such behavior.

Remember, the camera doesn't blink.

Now, please answer Boogum's question about Jan (Washskookum) as well as the other questions previously posed as they are definitely "BF related".

Get your facts straight before demanding I answer the questions posed to me.   SOme of those questions aren't bigfoot related and you know it.

Thank you.

[darkwinglh]

ray. I assume Boogums opinion was not the same as yours, good thing you didn't let him speak, like ya did ole bub. I'm disappointed in you. POWDERMAN. 

Powder,

No, your assumption is wrong.  I was just hoping against hope that this wouldn't become an extended....  I hoped to keep it between Darren and me and to keep it short.

I sure would like to have another game cam picture to investigate.
We have lots of game cam pictures that can be investigated Ray, some are very interesting to say the least as far as content.

I sure would like to have another sighting from which we could learn something.
The MABRC is currently investigating 11 sightings reports that have been turned in.  Once the initial investigation is concluded, I will post the information (Minus the contact info) for everyone to see.

I would even like to see some new tracks--of either type.
I will try to post some of the pics we have of some tracks that were found recently, if I can stop defending myself for a few days.

I sure am tired of the bickering.
Me too.

I ain't mad at nobody.
Glad to hear that.

And I really kind of like old Bulletmaker--if he would stop giving me "safety warnings" about getting shot by his leasees.
Well Ray, seriously, you know he has hunters up there, and if you get too close to the property line, there is a chance you could get shot.  I think he is seriously thinking of your safety when he does that.  And of course the company that you keep has been a big factor in that too.

[darkwinglh]

Let me try this again, bearing in mind this raises some questions about the MABRC. Admittedly there are good people in it who mean well, people such as LAL for example. There are others who are far more dubious and that is what I was driving at.

There are a lot of good people in the MABRC, and those that you may see as being dubious comes from what you have probably read here on this forum, which has been tainted with the hatred some have for the MABRC.

I would like to have Darren answer this question, as it plays into the no kill-pro kill argument. I would like to know what happened with an MABRC member named waskookum, because alledgedly this person was "befriended" by a few members pretending to no kill in order to gain access to her research area. This was done, if this accurate, under false pretense and raises a sticky whicket for this research group.

Washskookum left the MABRC because of personal issues, and she felt the group had grown too big for her to be in.  The allegation that she was befreinded and tricked by several members is an outright fabrication.  She invited several members up there to help her out, and she was never tricked by anyone ouotside of Ole Bub, who contacted anyone he could to show her information and make himself look good.  Because of this, she broke ties with him.  Wash knew she could trust anyone in the MABRC to go with her without worrying about anyone being pro-kill, even Bullet would not have went up there to shoot one, because it was her area and he wouldn't do that.  Bullet has set parameters for what he will do if he shoots one, it has to be an adult male, and it has to be a clear shot, he doesn't want to would it and cause it undue suffering.  But he will only do this on his property.  That does not make the MABRC pro-kill, as stated elsewhere, the individual members of the group can be either or, but the group maintains a nuetral position on it.  The pro-kill members know that if they go to investigate a sighting, they can't go with the intent to shoot one, and they don't sneak back trying to do it either.  That is the rules for this organization.

We've seen Bulletmaker's antics here, and he's a member of the inner circle? His claims if true should have produced proof by now, but Darren, what happened with Washskookum?

Once again, she resigned due to personal issues.  And I won't go any further than that, being that I respect her privacy and be assured that Wash and I are still friends, along with other members.

Ray, I apologize if it seems like I'm intruding here, but this seems like a fair question to give DW a chance to respond to.

[boogum]

Let me try this again, bearing in mind this raises some questions about the MABRC. Admittedly there are good people in it who mean well, people such as LAL for example. There are others who are far more dubious and that is what I was driving at.

There are a lot of good people in the MABRC, and those that you may see as being dubious comes from what you have probably read here on this forum, which has been tainted with the hatred some have for the MABRC.

Actually to be clear, the accusations come indirectly from her, through people she's spoken with privately, people I know and trust. She left because she felt wronged is the version that seems likley given the sources. I am attacking you, BM or anyone in asking this mind you, you're not the ones being implicated, she didn't actually name names, but the wording of what she felt happened is quite specific, and it wasn't the first time I've heard this. I heard a similar version from someone within your own group. You might bear that in mind, and no I won't name names.

[Ray Ford]

Good grief!